During this episode Ed and Bill discuss accountability, linking it to grace and restoration. They emphasize the importance of humility in leadership and cultivating a culture of peer-to-peer accountability. Through examples from scripture and personal experiences, the discussion highlights accountability's role in individual and team development.
Learn more at renewts.com
During this episode Ed and Bill discuss accountability, linking it to grace and restoration. They emphasize the importance of humility in leadership and cultivating a culture of peer-to-peer accountability. Through examples from scripture and personal experiences, the discussion highlights accountability's role in individual and team development.
Learn more at renewts.com
Does your faith break through? Are you one of the few? Oh, are you one of the few?
Track 1:Hello everyone. We want to welcome you to episode 78 of the few today. We're going to be talking about accountability and Bill, I don't know about you, but there's a part of that kind of makes my stomach turn when we start talking
dr--bill-brown_1_04-08-2024_092817:I'd, I'd have to agree. Definitely agree with you on that one. Not always the most enjoyable part of being a leader.
Track 1:there's two sides to accountability. We're going to be talking about today. And I think both of them make all of us a little bit squeamish. One is some of us don't like to hold people accountable. And then we also, most of us don't like to be held accountable and both are incredibly important when we're talking about accountability. But we're going to get into that today. We're glad all of you are listening or watching us on our YouTube channel today. And before we start this conversation, let's get into a little bit of.
dr--bill-brown_1_04-08-2024_092817:Front porch wisdom. Been reading a lot lately. Actually on leadership trying to brush up on a few things. And I ran across a quote by Ken Blanchard that has stuck with me. And I think he makes a pretty valid point and it's appropriate for the subject we're going to be discussing today. And this is what he says. He says, empowerment means you have the freedom to act, which anybody, most of us want that we want freedom. So empowerment means you have the freedom to act. It also means you are accountable for the results and truth, true. That is what I'm going to have to say about that.
Track 1:Wisdom. good wisdom. you don't need to add anything to that. it's stands alone.
dr--bill-brown_1_04-08-2024_092817:And that's all I'll just add the force company. That's all I have to say about that.
Track 1:Today I we do a lot of training through our organization, Renew Transformational Strategies. and one of the things we really deal with is self awareness, self management, self leadership, really understanding who you are, what you bring to the table, wherever you happen to lead. And one of the things that we often say is just something that just hit me one time when I was doing a training. And I've been thinking a lot about it lately. We threw it up as a social media post and got a lot of people reacting to it but basically it is this, it is that your undisciplined strengths. are also often your greatest weakness. So we talk a lot about, what your strengths are as a leader and then what are your weaknesses or your gaps that you need to work on. And what we often find is that some folks greatest weaknesses are their undisciplined strengths. And so another way of saying that is sometimes your greatest strength is also your greatest weakness. And so I just was thinking about it in my own life. I know that's very true. I'm not going to do a confession time here today but I know that the things that get me in the most trouble sometimes are the things that are probably my stronger points, just not tempered with grace, just not disciplined. Going over the top and and not paying attention to how I'm utilizing that gift or using that strength. And so that is my front porch wisdom for today.
dr--bill-brown_1_04-08-2024_092817:All right. We're going to be talking about accountability. And we think about that, we look at, look over our past ways that we've managed it, the ways we've experienced it, there's a lot of things that could be said scripture says a little bit about it actually says a good bit about accountability and we have a number of examples that you can draw from, The. The business world in the secular world has talked a lot about, and the neat thing about a lot of the things that you read is it's coupling accountability with grace even in the secular side which whenever you look at discipline in scripture, it's always has the goal of being redemptive, and restorative. And a lot of times it seems in the secular world that aspect gets lost and. And yet there has been a resurgence in the literature of that very thing of making sure that the accountability is, uh, is, redemptive or restorative. Your goal is to help. The person that you're serving as a leader grow and improve and learn and actually get good results too. So it's really, I think that's one of the refreshing things that I keep seeing over and over again is that contemporary leadership literature, um, a lot of it is they're discovering trues that have been, uh, in scripture for centuries, for millennia, I guess
Track 1:absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, and I think when it comes to accountability, there are two ways that we get in trouble with it. And one is not exercising it at all, avoiding it. And we're going to talk about that a little bit here today, but the other is not knowing what your purpose is and exercising that accountability. The question always has to be, what do I want the outcome to be here? And I think when we look at those passages in scripture about church discipline, it's the same thing. You have to ask that question. What do I want the outcome to be? And obviously scripture tells us and Paul specifically, tells us that the outcome needs to be to restore that person, to where they're, they need to be in their walk with Christ. And I think in the business world, the church world everywhere, If we don't have that right motive for accountability, that's where we really get in trouble. And so very often we don't stop, reflect. We talk a lot about that bill on the podcast is that we don't stop and reflect on why we're doing what we're doing and we do it. And sometimes we've got this kind of internal motive that's going on that we don't even recognize where it's retaliatory or, we're going to make a point or whatever it might be. So we have to always be asking that question. Why am I, why am I not or why am I exercising this accountability on this particular person?
dr--bill-brown_1_04-08-2024_092817:And I think one of the things that helps us do that is something else that we've discussed numerous times, but then the secular literature brings out as well as humility the importance, uh, and the value of humility and leadership recognizing, uh, the value of others and your. Your role in regards to their position in authority and exercising that authority with humility it's it can be winsome, and even the ways in which we hold people accountable. It's taken me forever to learn this. The ways we handle that can actually be winsome and encouraging if handled with the goal of restoration, it might be difficult in the moment, but in the long run. Those that we serve leaders and hold accountable with humility, approach the situation with a humble attitude and not a being the dictator who looks down on the mess that this underling has But treating them as a person that, that you value as an equal but yet have authority over. And doing so in a humble way really speaks volumes about you as a person, but also is encouraging, I think, to the person that you're trying to lead and help.
Track 1:That's where the culture comes in. We talk a lot about that on the podcast. If you're able to develop that culture where accountability is part of the culture, right? So we talk a lot and use a lot of Patrick Lincione's work here. We've both been influenced heavily. by his writing. And the fact is, if you go back to his five dysfunctions of a team, which are now the five positive behaviors of the team, flipped in reverse, he has that pyramid where he talks about the fact that the basic level of all organization is trust. And I would say that's in the church, that's in the workplace and nonprofits. The basic building foundation of a good culture in any organization is trust. And then out of that trust, there are other things that build upon that. And out of trust comes, conflict because you trust each other. you can have good conflict and out of conflict comes a commitment. And out of commitment comes accountability. And what he says, which I think is just really interesting. It's something That when I read it, I honestly, this was something for me that was new when I read this book years ago. But what he says is that accountability in an organization is best exercise from peer to peer. In other words in other words, if you are the boss, if you are the supervisor or the manager in your organization you're going to have to hold folks accountable. When he says that, you. To build a culture of peer to peer accountability, the leader has to be willing to wade into those difficult situations and exercise accountability. But the most effective accountability in a team setting is going to be when someone on the team holds a team, a colleague on the team accountable, right? And so it's a culture of agreeing to that on the team where you can think in sports. You and I both played a little bit of football, you a lot more than me. but you know that if a coach tells you, hey, you're letting the team down, that's one thing. But if your peers tell you're letting us down, that's another thing, right? And so then it's not only about motivation and outcome of what's best for this person, but it's then also the motivation and the outcome about what's best for the team. And I think that's something we have to. To remember is that if we're pausing to ask, what do I want to happen as I exercise this accountability, there needs to be two things going on there. And I think that going back to the church discipline stuff in scripture, that I think this is implied in what said as well. It is What's best for the individual, but also what's best for the church, right? And what's best for the individual, what's best for the team. And sometimes those are in conflict and that's where things get difficult and you have to make hard decisions and hard choices. But the fact is that if you can build a culture where this peer to peer accountability happens, I think this moves you forward tremendously, in any organization, whether it's a church, nonprofit or a business. Yeah.
dr--bill-brown_1_04-08-2024_092817:I'd agree. We I had the privilege of when my my senior year of high school, I was voted a team captain. There were four of us and on the football team and our coach. I remember one time the four of us captains got together and we felt that, you Uh, one of our teammates was needed to be addressed and it wasn't I was I had the blessing of being in a winning culture. We had a great coaching staff who balance the discipline with fun very well. And we, I think through my three years of high school, we only lost one regular season football game. So it was really a neat experience. But I remember the four of us captains going into the head coach's office after practice and said, we think something needs to be done about so and because they're not whatever. And he said, he looked at us and he said what are you four going to do about it? And we just, we were all dumbfounded, he said, you guys are team captains for a reason. The kids, your teammates look up to you for leadership and you need to lead. So how are you going to deal with this? And he walked us through it and we talked about it and so he encouraged that peer to And it was effective. It really was effective. I struggled at one point later in the season and I and one of the captains, he got in my face and he challenged me. He said, what's wrong with you? Last year you did this year you're, you know, and he basically accused me of laying down or quitting too easy or different things. and it worked, So that peer to peer accountability is I agree. Having experienced it in that way there's truth to it. The hard part is figuring out how to create a culture that. Enables and empowers that kind of
Track 1:Yeah, that's right. And again, that gets back into where I think as leaders and most of the folks, I think you listen to us are leaders in the church or workplace. And the fact is we have to set that example and it's on those two levels. We've been talking about, we have to be willing. To number one, hold people accountable. There's an article in the Harvard business review, November, 2020 written by a guy by the name of Ron Carucci. And the article is titled how to actually encourage employee accountability. And one of the things that, that I found Very interesting in this article is some statistics that he lifted out. And he said, data shows that 82 percent of managers acknowledge they have limited to no ability to hold others accountable successfully. And 91 percent of employees say that effectively holding others accountable is one of their company's top leadership development needs. These are employees, right? Who are saying, Hey, there is no accountability. Within the organization. He also says that Gallup found that only 14% of employees feel their performance is managed in a way that motivates them. And 26% get feedback less than once per year. And all these statistics, what they tell us, I think is what we know intuitively. And that is that we just don't like to hold people accountable. We are conflict averse, and we don't want to, we don't want to cause problems. We don't, and what we're doing is we're really hurting the organization because not only are we not helping that individual that needs that accountability exercise to become better at who they are and what they're doing, but we're also, But the rest of the organization's watching, right? And they're like, if this person can do this, why can I not just do whatever I want? So it becomes very selfish. It becomes very self centered and accountability is needed for teams to work. And I think in all, Successful organizations, teams is the basics, the basis for all successful work, but teams don't work well unless there is some accountability. But back to what you said was, how do you build that culture? And it starts with we as leaders being willing to hold people accountable. But as we're talking today, With the right outcome and motive in mind, right? That we are wanting what's best for the team and we're wanting what's best for that individual. And so being willing to exercise accountability is number one, but then second on that second level that we're talking about is being willing to be held accountable. So if you are a team leader and you're going to go in and start exercising accountability on people who aren't performing like they should, or behaving the way they should. Then you have to temper that with a kind of grace and humility that says, okay, team, when I'm not giving you my best, hold me accountable and then you've got to be willing to do it. And they won't, that trust won't be there until they actually see that you're serious about that, that you are willing to let them hold you accountable.
dr--bill-brown_1_04-08-2024_092817:And, this may sound strange but that applies across the board, even in parenting, you know, You as a parent, you discipline your kids and your goal is to help them become a thriving, healthy adult. But you make mistakes. And there are things that you don't always do well. And I think parents who are willing to apologize to their kids when they know they've messed up or when they allow their kids to, to voice their their perspective and know that they're those kids knowing that their parents will listen when they feel that. you've wronged them or whatever that just cultivates a much healthier relationship and deepens the trust. If I know if I'm working with you and I know my voice is heard and I know that you are going to apply the rules to me in the exact, the same way you're going to apply them to Fred and Joanne, then I'm going to respect you and I will. Respond Well to I've married to a, an educator and discipline in the classroom in recent years has grown increasingly more difficult, even the good kids are disrespectful and and, What has, what's been interesting to see over the years as she's led a classroom is that, some of the kids, she exercised the discipline across the board, consistent from whether it was the highest performer, the lowest, if they violated various class rules, they were all treated the same way. And when she decided to step away from teaching. The kids that she was the hardest upon, the ones that were the most troublesome, were the ones that were the first to come with tears and hugs and say, we're going to miss you, Miss Brown. We really love you and appreciate what you did. And it's, and I think it's all because she was fair. And she was consistent in her, her holding accountable. Um, And it was it was the same across the board and created a lot of respect in the minds of students that weren't always the most readily willing to give respect to those in authority
Track 1:have a story of my own life, that bears that out as well, with a person that I worked with that I had to exercise, a disciplinary plan on at one of the organizations that I was a part of. And it was very hard. It was very tough, and it strained the relationship greatly. During that time and you have to be prepared for that. these are not when you're exercising accountability or accountability is being exercised on you very often. Both of those are miserable experiences in the minutes and the hours and the days and the years and the months that it's happening. But again, it's that outcome that you're looking for. Like you're looking for something to happen that moves you forward, the team forward, the person that you're working with forward. And this particular person, within a couple of years, wrote me an absolutely, moving letter. of thanks, and frankly, it was, thank you for putting me through this misery, one of the most miserable, horrible times of my life. But because of that, I was able to see some things and grow and move into another opportunity. And I think that when that happens, that's just okay, yeah, it's, this is the hard work of organizational life and leadership that many people avoid. And they miss out. Now that's not to be naive and say that everybody that's going to work, there are going to be times, when you're exercising church discipline, or you're exercising accountability in an organization, or just in a peer to peer relationship. Everybody's not going to respond in the way you hope they do, and then you have to make hard decisions sometimes, if you're a manager or a supervisor, you have to fire people. And that's not easy to do. Even that needs to be tempered with grace. And if you really sincerely have as your outcome, two things, one, what's good for that person to what's good for the team. Sometimes you got to choose. This is best for the team. And this person has to go, but if you really care, good people are eventually going to come around to realize, you know what, that was not that wasn't a bad thing that happened to me. Wasn't a bad thing that was done to me, but there are always going to be some who never get that, and you're just going to have to be okay with that. That's just the price you pay for leadership. But Bill, there's a, there's an article. Written by Keith Rose called Five Reasons Church. Churches must cultivate a culture of accountability. And there are two things that I wanted to lift out today as we had this conversation that I thought were pretty incredible. A couple of things I hadn't really seen before. One was Hebrews chapter 13 verse 17, and this is one that, a lot of pastors don't preach on, but it says, obey your leaders and submit to them since they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account so that they can do this with joy and not with grief for that would be unprofitable for you. And I've read that scripture, many times. But in preparing for this conversation, it was like everything we're talking about is in that one verse, right? It's talking about accountability being exercised by leadership, but It goes on to say, since they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account, in other words, they will be held accountable, right? There's accountability exercise from leader to follower, but the leader will be accountable. And all of this is done with joy and not with grief for that would be unprofitable for you. It's about. What helps you move along in your spiritual growth, in this passage in Hebrews. And I just thought it was neat watching how everything we're talking about is summed up there that to exercise accountability, we have to be held accountable. And all of it is for the purpose of our growth of our moving forward. And that should be the case, whether, especially those of us who are faith empowered workplace leaders, whether we're in the church, Or the nonprofit or the workplace that should be the motive in any accountability that we are exercising on our team.
dr--bill-brown_1_04-08-2024_092817:Amen. Amen. And I think sometimes that gets lost in the emotional of the challenges that you face. It's, it can readily fall through the cracks when you lose sight of the impact that your emotions are having upon your ability to perceive what's actually taken place and to see it clearly. It's difficult. And that's where. The whole, the, how do you do this? Is, that's the, how do you handle these things? to that, I'm sure. But but yeah, it is cool how Hebrews 13 pulls the both together. It's not just like in, in first Thessalonians chapter five, as Paul wraps up that letter, he says, he basically tells the people the same thing, submit to those who are in authority over you. I looked it up. Respect those who labor among you and who are over you in the Lord and admonish you and esteem them very highly in love because of their work. And then be at peace among yourselves. So he does give some instructions beyond that, but he doesn't say that the impact their choices will have on the leader, there. So the Hebrews passes does bring it both together nicely.
Track 1:it's incredible though. When you read paul's letters How much of the conversation needs happening with these churches deals with culture Deals with just building a certain type of culture, right? And this culture of grace that should permeate all church you just this needs to be exercised in this accountability piece as well I want to ask you a question. I just probably put you on the spot, but in hebrews 10 24 and 25 This was another scripture that article that I just referenced brought up And it's something I really hadn't put a lot of thought into before, but in 25, it says, and let us consider one another in order to provoke love and good works, not neglecting the gathered together, which is usually where everybody in the church world lands in that scripture. Hey, we all need to get together in church as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging each other and all the more as you see the day approaching, But what, in your, in your opinion, Bill, what does it mean for us to provoke love and good works? What does that mean?
dr--bill-brown_1_04-08-2024_092817:This seems like a trick
Track 1:no, it's not. I never really have thought about it, before. What does it mean to provoke? One another, or consider one another in order to provoke love and good works, and I didn't do a study of that word provoke in the Greek or anything like that. I
dr--bill-brown_1_04-08-2024_092817:All right. Well, I didn't Obviously. But when you think about you think about all the things that that we, the ways in which we interact with our brothers and sisters in Christ in the church and I think obviously this is going to have carry over into the workplace, but everything grows out of relationship. And, he says, consider one another. in order to provoke love and good works, not neglect, not neglecting to gather together as summer in the habit. So one thing you, it called it, It is directing us toward relationship and community and being engaged with other people. That's one thing that I see is here, but the other thing is to be mindful and know the person well enough to be able to direct and encourage them toward the the things that they should be doing. You gotta be in community, participate in community, knowing someone well enough. To know what they're engaged in, what motivates them the struggles that they may have, so you actually know that person. And then that and through that relationship, you compel them toward love and good deeds. And I guess one of the things that. would have to come out of that is challenging them in the areas that they struggle challenging them to see other good that they could be doing if they were focused in different ways or maybe that opportunities that, that God has put around them in the work. In the that the way that person's gifted and the passions that they have, and then needs that they see in the community, whether it's the faith community that is their immediate church or in the community around them, help them or compel them to see ways in which God could be equipping them or they could specifically be equipped to do that good. And then help them do those things or ways in which they've. The other side is way ways in which they've failed. You provoke encourage as well through accountability. The, how do we get them to do those things? So without having done a background study on that's the, that's what comes to my mind, the importance of community and relationship in. the role of encouraging or provoking others to do good things.
Track 1:Yeah. And I think that's good. I think that makes sense to me. That's where I went when I saw that it's like, This whole idea really is this culture we're talking about where there is that accountability, where we are thinking of each other. And it's that team culture. It's that body culture that Paul talks about, that we need to have for each other, which in that is obviously accountability. And
dr--bill-brown_1_04-08-2024_092817:And yeah you can't have authentic community. You can't have authentic community without a measure of accountability. People can do and live and make choices, whatever in any way they want without any consideration for the impact that has on other people or the organization of which they're a part, then that's going to foster distrust because that person contributing. They're not to the overall team. And so I think, um, without. Accountability there can be no authentic or healthy community, a sense of community among people. And we are designed for that. We're created for relationship with God first, but then also with one another. And and accountability is a key aspect of having healthy community with
Track 1:We got practical on this I can imagine that a lot of our listeners out there I know there's a line in Lynch Unity's book, The Advantage, where he says, I know that a lot of you feel like this is a fairy tale that I'm talking about, any kind of a team where this actually happens, right? And he goes on to say that's because we don't have good teams, and I think that's true. I do think that's true. The thing we have to admit is that. There are some organizational life where this is going to be very difficult because people just aren't at that point yet. There has to be some permission for accountability to be exercised and accepted. And But if I'm a pastor of the church or I, and I have a paid staff or a bunch of volunteers I'm working with or I'm a, an executive director of a nonprofit or a manager in business or a small business owner or whatever. And I'm listening to this podcast and I'm thinking, yeah, I get it. Accountability is important. I, as a leader need to find a place that I'm held accountable with my team with, peers in my industry or in the church or whatever, there needs to be that accountability that I need to be submitting myself to. But what are some real practical ways that you can think of where we would say to, to someone, okay, if you want to start building this accountability into your workplace whatever it may be, what would be some things that you think where do we need to start with that?
dr--bill-brown_1_04-08-2024_092817:I think one of the things you have to start with is being clear with expectations. Um, And who are responsible for specific aspects of the work at your business or, The work in your, in the church that you lead, I think you need to be clear on expectations and I think more, and it's more than just having a good job description. It's, I think it's sitting down like we just recently brought in a new staff member here and one of the first conversations was about, okay how will you know you're doing a good job in these first three months? What should be your primary goals your focus? And so we talked about that. And and then I have a regular, Follow up with him every other week we sit down and talk specifically about those things and so you have clear expectations and then I think regular check-ins and it's and it changes over time, and terms of the frequency and those kind of things as you're cultivating the relationship of trust. Early on it's all part of that adaptive leadership. You, not everybody is led in the same way. And it depends on the job they're being asked to do and the experience level that they have and all those things. But I think one of the first keys is being clear on expectations. I think a second thing is having regular and consistent follow up. So I know like for me. When we worked, when we served together at South Parkersburg it was helpful to me to know that you or Lloyd was going to, we're going to sit down with me and say, okay, where are you at on this project? How are you coming on that? We said we were going to, when we talked the last time you were here. You were lining up to do these things and knowing that I was going to be asked about those, you know, you should be able to be self motivated and you should be able to just be willing to tackle those things. But knowing that I was going to be asked about those helped me. It motivated me to make sure I got that done for whatever reason, whether it was a fear of failure or just a desire to be great at what I did, I was more motivated. And so having a clear expectation, but then also knowing that there was going to be a regular followup and it wasn't in a threatening way at all but I think on the early parts, those two things are would be very helpful and essential and it's in, when it's handled in that way, it's not it's nonthreatening if it's just part of what you do. It's not like what the way I've handled things too often in my past was. I was very trusting. I would say, okay, you got this job and then I wouldn't check in regularly with that person or I waited until too much had happened. That wasn't the way it should have been. And then I stepped in and it's because I didn't want to hurt somebody's feelings or whatever. And it's much, much better. And it's, I think it helps contribute to a culture of accountability by making your ex, having clear expectations and then having a regular follow up and where those things are discussed. I think that to me is a starting point.
Track 1:think that's great. I totally agree with you. I think that clear expectations and I think what you're talking about in that having a cadence where expectations are followed up on you that again, that's just accountability, in its essence, it is starting with clear expectations, but then revisiting those expectations. But like you said, again, with the motive of grace and the motive of grace. Of trying to help the team and the individual be better at what they do and who they are, you're following up in this way of what can I help you? How, what are some barriers that are keeping you from doing that? How can I help you get there? And if that is your culture, and if you've built that into your culture, if this accountability is a core value, it's something that you value as a leader and you help other people value, then it does become very easy. Like it feels like someone's actually doing you a favor by exercising this accountability. And then you're much more likely to do that with other people around you to submit yourself to that accountability. this is not a bad thing. This is actually a really good thing in any organization and on any team. So I think that's great.
dr--bill-brown_1_04-08-2024_092817:Yeah. One of the questions that I heard somebody ask one time or suggest that one, one of the good questions to ask in conversations like these, so we'll, what do you need from me? How can I help you? What resource can I give you to help you get this done? Or to help you in this process to support you. What do you need from me? What can I do to help? Okay. And I think that's an excellent question that promotes makes it a more encouraging conversation, which is what it Obviously there are going to be times when you have to be. There's just been a blatant failure or disregard for what was agreed to or, goals that were to be pursued. Most of the time, I think if we would practice the ongoing. expectations and just the ongoing conversation like having regular staff meetings where everybody's in it and you ask them where they're at on the specific projects that they were doing or whatever. It's a very mild way of accountability, but it also it also fosters peer accountability to, When you do it in that staff
Track 1:I think my experience has been, and I'm sure that this is not everybody's experience, but my experience has been that this is one of the places where the church needs to improve even more than the business world. Like I think it's normal in the business world for people to have if you go back and listen to our podcast, where we talk about execution, we look at, a couple of different goal setting model like objective key results and the 40x model from Covey. And all of that is built around accountability. Like all that is built around, what are you going to do this week? What do you agree to do this week? Did you do what you agreed to do last week? What are you going to do next week? When you get down to the weekly things and I think in the church, sometimes we feel like, we're being too pushy or whatever. But. But that can be a real gift to people in what they're trying to accomplish. Again, done with grace, done with love, done with the motive of helping that person accomplish what they've agreed to accomplish, get better at what they're doing, be a better person who God wants them to be. But I do think in the church, that's something that we should start using. I know a lot of folks who have multiple paid church staff and there's just very little accountability. That's there. People are just left to do whatever they want to do. And there's no real cohesiveness. There's no real team atmosphere, there. And I think this is one place where folks could really improve in the church world.
dr--bill-brown_1_04-08-2024_092817:And, I reminded of Timothy's instructions to, or Paul's instructions to Timothy on how to deal with these kinds of things, the difficult conversations like in first Timothy five, one, do not rebuke an older man, but encourage him as you would a father, younger men as brothers, older women as mothers, younger women as sisters in all and I think that kind of gets the heart at, gets at the heart of how the faith empowered leader should approach those conversations, the, because the goal is restoration, redemptive growth, Health, improvement. And you want the people that you're, serving as a leader to be successful and to thrive. It's good for, it would be good for your team. It would be good for the organization that you serve and and good for them. It's a wonderful. feeling as an, as a person to feel like you've actually accomplished meaningful. Um, you I look back on certain seasons where I just felt miserable like I was failing and then you with help and guidance and hard work was able to accomplish something significant. And, that is really, that's a motivating and an experience that really does set you up for success. With a willingness to tackle other big things that maybe before you wouldn't have been willing Consider or been been maybe Of trying
Track 1:There's a blog that I read on this subject bill in preparation by a lady by the name of Elizabeth Perry. And she lines out her ideas of how to create a culture that, that allows for good accountability. And I think everything that you and I have talked about today, probably Follows in there, but the way she sums it up is this number one, make it a core value, and I think that we, that's what we're getting at is that culturally, this is, this accountability is just something that becomes natural. It's something that, everybody understands this is part of who we are. I'm going to be held accountable and I'm expected to hold, my peers accountable, yada, yada, yada. Second, she says lead by example, which again is, submit yourself to that accountability. If you're going to exercise accountability, make expectations clear, which is exactly, what you said, build all of this upon trust. And, again, that's exactly what Lynch Yoni says. You can't, you just can't have this culture of accountability. If you don't have an underlying culture of trust that it's built upon. And And then reward and celebrate it. And that's the one thing I don't think that we've really talked about, which I think is incredibly important, is when you when you have that, that, that moment where accountability is tense, where it is hard, where it's difficult when things happen, That was the motivation for the accountability in the first place. When you ask that question, why, and it's this is the outcome that I'm really looking for that restoration, that redemption, those things you're talking about, then celebrate that, sell it, celebrate that. Hey, look what this person has accomplished. Look how they have added to the team. And I think that's just incredibly important. I like the way she sums all that up.
dr--bill-brown_1_04-08-2024_092817:That is a great summary and I and the Rewarding or celebrating is something that I've not been the best at doing as leader I don't know if it's because I haven't needed it. Myself but I haven't been mindful of being the source or the one who promotes celebration of successes or, accomplishments. Uh, so that's that's very instructive to
Track 1:and I think in, if, in in all kinds of leadership and organizational life books, you'll find this term celebrate wins, and I do think it's really hard for a lot of us as leaders because we look at life as, You just do what you're called to do and you don't really Have so much. Don't get me wrong. I think we all appreciate being appreciated, right? But we all don't we all don't need To be celebrated to be able to do what? Needs to be done. And so I think when we have that kind of mindset, it's hard for us to remember. It's still really nice, to be appreciated. And so we need to do that. We need to be those people who appreciate others and that just buys you more opportunity, to exercise accountability, just builds that trust more, it just shows that you appreciate. That person has done. there there are three things that also, I think that some of our folks might be thinking out there that I think would be important. And that is, in yourself as a leader, what do you need to have to be able to begin to interject this accountability into your organization's culture? And the first is a very high emotional intelligence. It is, you need to know yourself again, because if you don't, Then your accountability is going to be motivated for the wrong reasons. It's going to get wrapped up as you said earlier, Bill, and all that emotional junk that you have where you don't even realize, you're doing something that's not really the correct motive. you're seeking vengeance of some sort or you're doing whatever. And so high emotional intelligence is important. The second is trust and relationships to build old trust. And we've talked. That you know about that forever. But that really is so important and accountability, you can fire people and you can make them do things, but the kind of accountability we're talking about is that helps people become better at who they are and what they do, and of course, for people of faith that grow mature spiritually. And then the third is a desire to grow, learn, and be better. And so as a leader. If you don't have that desire to grow, learn, and be better, you won't submit yourself to accountability. you're going to always be that person who thinks every criticism that comes your way is someone else being mean to you, or, they don't get you or whatever. And the scripture is full of why we need to listen. To what people have to say, because sometimes there's some real truth that we need to hear, and that's accountability. I've shared this story many times on this podcast of my mentor pulling me aside after a meeting and saying, Hey, you got some real problems with your leadership and if I had not listened to that I would not be where I am today. I can say that for sure. That was a turning point in my life of understandings and things I needed to understand. Had I just said he's just a jerk, which a lot of people That's their reaction or he doesn't know, what's going on in my life instead of, okay, I'm going to listen. I'm going to hear it. I wasn't easy, and it took a while for me to process it and get through it, but I'm incredibly thankful for it today. And so I think that's it. Have a high emotional intelligence, trust and relationships that are built on trust and a desire to grow and learn and be better as a leader. Those are imperative. If you want to interject this culture of accountability in your organization. Thank you.
dr--bill-brown_1_04-08-2024_092817:It, accountability has to be a two way street. It's gotta be in your, whether it's in your church or in the organization that you lead you're going to lead by example. And one of the examples you need to set it as a willingness to be held accountable for the, um, the trust that's been given to you, so. No,
Track 1:we probably won't stay here very long as we continue to talk. It'll probably get back up around an hour but we're at about 50 minutes. Bill, is there anything else that you want to add to the conversation today?
dr--bill-brown_1_04-08-2024_092817:I, I think I'm
Track 1:You didn't comment on my pineapple, shirt today.
dr--bill-brown_1_04-08-2024_092817:Your shirt no,
Track 1:I'm,
dr--bill-brown_1_04-08-2024_092817:I, it's a
Track 1:yeah, I wore this specifically for our new YouTube channel. So if you all are watching us, which I still have no idea why you would want to actually watch us and not just listen to us. But some people do. And if you're watching us, then I wore my nice pineapple shirt for just for you today. So
dr--bill-brown_1_04-08-2024_092817:I used to have several of those. We call, I call it a Hawaiian flower Is what I Them. And I would wear them, on vacation and they, I liked them cause they're untucked when untucked wasn't in style, and, um, And so, um, somewhere along the lines, I think my wife made them disappears. What that and then I just noticed it at one day. They weren't in my closet
Track 1:You need to get some new ones and tell her it's just for our podcast and then you can wear them wherever you
dr--bill-brown_1_04-08-2024_092817:Okay.
Track 1:all right, thanks everyone for listening to us. We do appreciate you and hope that you find this, helpful in your journey as a faith empowered workplace leader, whether you're in the church or in a nonprofit or in the workplace. And if you ever need any help we are sponsored by Renew Transformational Strategies, which is us. We're a part of that and a few other people, and we do a lot of work in the areas of leadership development and organizational health with churches, nonprofits, and, and businesses as well. So you can always reach out to us and find us at RenewTS. com or email us at Ed at RenewTS. com or Bill at RenewTS. com. So until next time, we hope that you are.
dr--bill-brown_1_04-08-2024_092817:One of the few.